Wednesday, February 2, 2011

Well here's to you Mr Robinson

 The BBC Newsnight did a section on the EDL last night with Jeremy Paxman interviewing the EDL's "self styled" (the BBC's description not mine) leader Stephen Lennon or  Tommy Robinson as he's known to the EDL and pretty much anyone else.

The intro by the BBC Asia Network presenter Catrin Nye who had been following the EDL leader around for 6 months clearly showed that the BBC are struggling to deal with the concept of the EDL with its multicultural, multiracial, multi ethnic and non sexist following. In six months all they managed to do was drop in some video scenes of demo's to show various chants and occasional violence at EDL marches, some of them clearly not EDL but the various groups that oppose the EDL. The interview afterwards with Paxman itself also failed to nail the EDL leader who held his ground and even tripped Paxman himself up at one stage when he tried to put words into his mouth.
The problem the BBC have with Tommy Robinson is he's genuine, he really believes what he's saying and it's struck a chord with a lot of people. No, he's not polished (but he's getting better) and he's no politician either (a good thing) but he more than held his own against Paxman who could only bring up facebook as an example of EDL racism, knowing full well anyone can write on a facebook wall and yes the EDL know facebook is a bit of a liability for them, but it is the way a lot of people in the EDL communicate with each other. If you want to see the real EDL though look at their forum instead, this is where a lot of their policy gets discussed, this was also where the the Pastor Terry Jones invite was discussed, criticised and ended up being rejected by the EDL leadership.
The next charge that was thrown was that white people are also paedophiles, well it's certainly true, though they don't tend to congregate in gangs at school gates and force prostitution on their victims by plying them with drink and drugs. Nor have they any protection from the law by screaming "racist" at them, nor does the white community protect them.
Robinson was clearly nervous, but he did well, Paxman was unable to demolish him as he has effortlessly done with pompous politicians. The EDL are no saints, but they are not racist (though they have had a problem with racists) they are not homophobic (though again they have had problems with homophobes) they support Israel, which mortifies the BBC and are clearly multicultural in a way the establishment struggle to comprehend. In essence they are sectarian and this is a concept the mainstream media and politicians in the UK (with the possible exception of Northern Ireland) clearly struggle to grasp. What's worse from their perspective is that the EDL continues to grow and evolve and is now costing them a lot of money in their efforts to contain it, though this mostly goes on efforts to try and keep the EDL's opponents from attacking them as well as the police, where there has been no opposition to the EDL during a demo there's been no violence so the link is fairly obvious.
The most telling thing about the interview is that the BBC did not invite comment from any opposition group such as the UAF. Oh I'm sure they would have had something to say, problem is though the entire BBC presentation demolished the whole racist, fascist, violent spiel that they use to describe the EDL. They would have looked stupid, so in this instance the BBC were smart to keep them away.
As it was, the EDL came out of the whole thing looking like normal, concerned citizens, not articulate and polished by any means, but clearly at odds to the media image. Yes the demo's frighten some people, but it keeps the media focussed on what the EDL see as a problem so it works well for the EDL. Where the real power of the EDL lies though is in its varied membership (though there's no official membership as such) Feet on the street counts for a lot particularly when it gets reported accurately in the MSM and all credit to the guys and gals that do this, brave souls and frontline warriors. Behind this though are the milder types who work behind the scenes, refuting stories where the EDL are misrepresented in the media as well as forums and blogs, dealing with misconceptions with a well aimed sentence or a withering comment. The truth after all is out there to be found and the facts about the real EDL are easy enough to find if you go looking. There are also Islamic experts too, informing all who come to the EDL forums about Islam and it's various practices. Some are in all 3 groups, others in only one or two, but their value to the cause shouldn't be underestimated or denigrated which is where the MSM and the righteous have it all wrong. They think they can undermine, disrupt or ignore the EDL, they can't, it's not a phenomenon they really understand as it stands outside their world view and experience.
All in all this was an own goal for the BBC, the EDL didn't come across as anything like they were accused of and their leader did not get Paxmanned as a lot expected.
Wonder what they'll do next.

14 annotations:

Woman on a Raft said...

not articulate and polished by any means,

I rather like that. I'm fed up with 'articulate' meaning 'weasely' and 'polished' meaning 'manipulative'.

Yes, it gets it over: the BBC is in denial about what people are seeing on the streets.

The Lizard King said...

Hi Quiet Man,

Yeah I saw this clip over at The Final Redoubt, I don`t have an issue with concerns over sharia, rapists ,peado`s etc, anyone with half a brain would condemn that.

My problem is it`s all very one dimensional, its large groups of men arriving uninvited into city locations chanting abuse at, fighting with and intimidating locals.

Don`t tell me it isn`t so, I`ve seen them in full cry live here in Nottingham abusing xmas shoppers,
and of course they attract other self righteous mobs in opposition to further shit on our offense but they are achieving nothing!, just alienating ordinary folk like me, ordinary folk don`t do thugs trying to "educate" them through aggression.

Quiet_Man said...

There's a lot more to the EDL than the demo's. Yes the chanting and songs are intimidating, but they aren't aimed at shoppers, plus most of the trouble at demo's comes from those opposed to the EDL, certainly the arrest ratio seems to indicate this running at approximately 9 to 1 in the EDL's favour.
As for them achieving nothing, well a support base from a few score to 70,000 in just two years would indicate that they are reaching out to a lot of people. They also leaflet, support community projects and when the students covered the Cenotaph with graffiti in London, the EDL came down and helped clear it up.
A lot of this goes unreported in the media who like you concentrate on the demo's as there is more chance of getting something newsworthy from them. But as I said, there is a lot more to the EDL than meets the eye.

The Lizard King said...

Quiet Man,

I don`t remember them clearing up the mess they left in Nottingham City centre, or apologizing to the ordinary folk who were at the receiving end of their abuse and aggression, I don`t remember them offering to pay the policing bills they left us taxpayers with, I don`t recall them offering to compensate the shop keepers who lost trade, none of the people affected by the EDL/UAF roadshow were peado`s, sharia advocates, muslim gangsters or terrorists.

Like I said, a waste of time money and energy!...ours!

Barking Spider said...

It's a real pleasure to see those biased, Lefty Beeboids shoot themselves in both feet, QM.

Quiet_Man said...

The Nottingham demo was over a year ago when EDL numbers were smaller and the opposition far more violent and uncontrolled. 11 were arrested on the day, 9 of whom were not EDL.
Now you don't like the EDL demo's, as they intimidate you and cost money, fair enough. Now, what would you like to happen about radical Islam and Sharia law? Ignore it? They wont be ignored, there are already over 100 Sharia courts running in this country dealing out civil justice Islamic style meaning no women's rights, homophobia as written into Islamic law. Do the EDL fly planes into buildings? Drive cars loaded with fuel canisters wrapped in nails at airport entrances? Blow up tubes and buses with ordinary people on them? Demand their own laws for their own people? Demand their own banking system that disadvantages our own? Send their converts out to fight our soldiers in other countries? Send their converts out to blow up people in Sweden? Do the EDL run paedophile networks?
The EDL are a symptom of what is happening in this country, they are not the cause. It should not have been up to the working class football supporters to take it upon themselves to deal with it, however they did and that's why there has been trouble on some marches, as well as the singing and chanting. You may not like it, but at least they got of their arses to do something. You may decry their efforts, but at least they are trying. You hate the expense, but someone had to make it known that the behaviour of some Muslims should no longer be tolerated in this country. Yes it's expensive, but uncontrolled immigration a lot of it from Islamic countries has driven a lot of people to the edge as they wont integrate and expect us to adhere to their values and all the 7th century barbarism that goes with it.
Somebody had to make a stand, it wasn't the bloggers, it wasn't the libertarians and it wasn't the middle class or politicians, it was the ordinary working class white guys.
They made a stand, they said no more and you want them to go away? Be thankful they wont, because if they do, Islam will cause a lot more problems for the UK, look at France to see what happens next in their Banlieu's.

The Lizard King said...

Quiet Man,

The EDL and UAF are both cheeks from the same backside shitting on our streets as far as I`m concerned, what have your violent demo`s actually achieved, how many Sharia courts have you stopped?, let me guess none, and I couldn`t give a shit if people want to live under sharia, in will never replace Euro law.

Save me the working class football supporter saving the country bullshit, the only reason most of them turn up is for a ruck because football matches are so expensive and tightly controlled, what is this need to be surrounded by tough guys and strutting your stuff abusing ordinary people going about their business.

You`ll never convince me, 98% of them just turn up for a piss up and to kick off with some Muslim shop keeper or lefty, problem is I`ve seen your heroes live and in action, its the drunken mob mentality, abusive, aggressive and vicious, like all drunken angry mobs justice and proportion goes out of the window.

They`ve achieved nothing, even their beloved leader makes a complete twat of himself, naming himself after some football hooligan FFS that says it all frankly.

I respect anyones right to protest I don`t respect anyone who`s targeting ordinary folk going about their business and thats what happened here in Nottingham, xmas shoppers FFS, no one has asked working class thugs to invade their city centre`s and cause mayhem that I know of FAIL MASSIVE FAIL.....;)

Quiet_Man said...

None so blind as those who will not see. The EDL don't target ordinary people, nor did they target you. The UAF on the otherhand believe in shutting down all debate calling on the government to silence the EDL, physically attacking the EDL when they can, using union money to pay for their demonstrations (money taken from ordinary guys) Frankly to compare the two organisations demonstrates a lack of cognisance on your part. One believes in freedom of speech and freedom of assembly with one law for all. The other supports violent terrorists and believes in attacking normal law abiding citizens, shutting down debate, attacking the police and keeping up a constant barrage of lies and misinformation.
Frankly if you can't tell the two apart there's no hope for you. The EDL are far more than football hooligans, the vast majority of them don't go to football matches, don't have criminal records and don't believe in the use of violence to achieve their aims.
The EDL's mission statement is here I repeat, they are not what you believe they are, though I don't believe you even want to know what they are. I've watched them for months, debated with them on their forum and whilst they have their problems with their image, mostly they are just ordinary people fed up to the back teeth with militant Islam and our governments pandering to it.
You on the otherhand would appear to have no problems living under sharia law, after all you wont do anything about its implementation other than attack those who seek to stop it. What have you done to prevent the Islamisation of the UK? Or is that another figment of the EDL and others imagination?

The Lizard King said...

Lets agree to disagree eh!....;)

Quiet_Man said...

Oh yes, I'm not saying your wrong about the problems the EDL can bring to a town. Just that the demo's are not all there is to the EDL.

Anonymous said...

I'm Scottish and I support the EDL.

Anonymous said...

I'm sensible and I support the EDL

Anonymous said...

Quiet Man most interesting post. Looking at the BBC report into the EDL it was almost as though they had dispatched one of their Foreign correspondents to a faraway land of which we know little and care less!!

There is a complete disconnect between our political elites and the ordinary people of our country. Our rulers and commentariat simply cannot understand a grassroot organisation like the EDL. They dont understand honest stated intentions. They dont understand that a movement may not have a hidden agenda. They have no respect for the working class unless it espouses a socialist attitude. Please see below a few lines from G K Chesterton's wonderful poem The Secret People. They are so incredibly appropriate to today's situation. THE PEOPLE OF ENGLAND ARE BEGINING TO SPEAK!!

And a new people takes the land: and still it is not we.
They have given us into the hand of new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evening; and they know no songs.
We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God's scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.

Anonymous said...

I had not heard of the EDL until I saw Tommy Robinson vs Paxman on the BBC. He came accross to me as having with well thought out arguments that Paxman could not counter.