Thursday, June 23, 2011

My gaff my rules

People should have the right to defend themselves and their property, the law even (supposedly) allows this with a reasonable force addendum to any crime in which the perpetrator is injured. Though personally speaking the states idea of reasonable force and my idea of reasonable force don't really match as mine includes the possibility of the perpetrator never being in a position to attack/rob me or mine (or anyone else) ever again, which seems reasonable to me.
So it still irritates me to see headlines like this in the media.

BBC.
A burglar has been stabbed to death and the householder arrested on suspicion of murder after an attempted break-in at his house in Salford.

Four masked men attempted to get into a house in Ethel Avenue before midnight on Wednesday.

The stabbed man, 26, is believed to have been carried away by the other intruders as they fled, before being dumped in a street in Pendlebury.

Peter Flanagan, 57, son Neil, 29, and his son's girlfriend are being held.

The men and the 21-year-old woman are being questioned on suspicion of murder.
Police said the stabbed man was found on Hospital Road and died a short time later.

Ch Supt Kevin Mulligan, who heads Greater Manchester Police's Salford division, said the man suffered "at least one stab wound" during an altercation in the house involving at least one person from the address and four people breaking in.

He said he could not comment further on the injuries or the cause of death until a post-mortem examination had been carried out.

He also refused to comment on whether the weapon had been taken into the property by the intruder or if it belonged to the householder.
 Now to my mind, anyone breaking into someone else's house immediately puts themselves beyond the laws protection, that ought to make them fair game for any self defence that the property owner/tenant should decide to use to defend themselves and their goods. Not according to the law of the land though, as far as they are concerned if you commit a crime defending yourself then your going to be prosecuted. The law as it stands only allowing you to defend yourself physically if your opponent is facing you. Stab them in the back and it's assault and upwards and you probably spending more time inside than they do such is our crazy system, just ask Tony Martin.
No, I'm not suggesting that people be allowed to set mantraps in their gardens, but what I am saying is that felons are beyond the laws protection either coming towards you or running away during the course of the felony and you have the right to use as much force as you like as they are fair game. You do not have the right to go round to their place the following morning and shoot them though, however the rules of hot pursuit should be recognised too, their only recourse being to turn themselves in whilst trying to escape.
In the USA you shoot a burglar, you don't get arrested, but in certain states the people with the burglar are arrested and charged with the manslaughter/wounding with intent as the injuries sustained committing a crime are deemed to be the criminals responsibility. Strikes me as common sense which is probably why our legal system will persecute the victims rather than the perpetrators.
The state wants all forms of violence firmly in its hands or those outside the law, has done for a while now, after all armed people might just go after the powers that be. That in a nutshell is why people who defend themselves frequently end up being prosecuted and incarcerated themselves.

8 annotations:

Anonymous said...

'No, I'm not suggesting that people be allowed to set mantraps in their gardens'
Why not?
The whole problem for the law abiding core of this country lies in the fact that the criminals know they are unarmed and in fear of being arrested if they put up any resistance.
An elderly gentleman I know lived in America for many years. He tells me the local Police went on strike. Crime dropped to almost zero. The reason seems fairly obvious.

Longrider said...

'No, I'm not suggesting that people be allowed to set mantraps in their gardens'
Why not?


Because you may well trap a legitimate visitor?

All Seeing Eye said...

If they are legitimate, Longrider, then they can walk up the path like respectable people. There they will only have the sniper rifle to contend with.

Anonymous said...

I saw this story earlier today and it really riled me. I don't know anything other than what is on the BBC/Evening Standard websites, so there could be a lot of pertinent information missing, but if four people broke into a person's house with the intent to steal or for any other nefarious purpose, were surprised and ended having some kind of altercation with the home owner and then fled dropping one who died of his injuries sustained on the way, why are the only people in custody the home owner, his son and his son's girl friend? You would think that the police might be trying to put more effort into figuring out who the other three would-be robbers were and bringing them in (and not just as witnesses to the demise of the one found). Maybe the moral of this story don't call 999 to report anything. simply make sure none of them get away and bury them in the yard or feed them to your furnace/wood stove if you're lucky enough to still have one.

Having moved to the UK from the US I am still not used to how little respect there is here for private property and for the right of individuals to defend it, themselves and their families, let alone help a neighbour or someone they see getting robbed/assaulted etc. It seems that the law in the UK automatically makes you the criminal and the real criminal the victim - and they know it. Kind of messed-up if you ask me.

DerekP said...

Anonymous said...
It seems that the law in the UK automatically makes you the criminal and the real criminal the victim - and they know it. Kind of messed-up if you ask me.


Keeps the police and lawyers in power and money (for the time being any way).

What the politicians and police are too stupid to realise is that once enough people have to rely upon themselves for defence, and find the police and lawyers are on the side of the criminals it is then only a short step to think about using violence to repel ALL oppressors.

Longrider said...

If they are legitimate, Longrider, then they can walk up the path like respectable people. There they will only have the sniper rifle to contend with.

I'd better tell the window cleaner to watch where he puts his ladder, then ;)

Quiet_Man said...

I was more worried about dogs and cats, not like they know about land boundaries.

subrosa said...

A change in the law concerning intrusion of a person's property is long overdue. Cameron and his cohorts would be far better spending their time on this rather than making one of the UK's senior surgeons annoyed. Now the man has been given 'gardening leave'. It's one time I agree with full pay for someone on gardening leave. I hope the said surgeon takes the Trust to law. Would be interesting.